Choosing Happiness and Being Enough | Karyn Seitz | Ep. 15

Karyn Seitz is known as The Happiness Mentor. 

What is happiness? And what is preventing us from being fully happy? 

Like many of us, Karyn was chasing success externally, and outsourcing her happiness to others. As she did, the void and imposter syndrome got bigger. Despite the spiritual seeking and achievements, she still didn’t feel like she was “enough.” That is, until she realized this truth. 

SHE was the problem…and therefore the solution.

In this episode:

• Why the pursuit of happiness leads to unhappiness
• Is happiness a choice?
• Releasing external validation and becoming “enough”
• Setting boundaries (including with ourselves) is an act of self-love
• Offering self-love and healthy discipline through parenting ourselves
• Why YOU are the answer you’ve been searching for your whole life 

Karyn supports others to find their version of happiness, and to have both the self-love and self-discipline to create it. You can learn more about Karyn’s work and the programs she offers at https://ahappinesscourse.com. 

Chapters

• 3:07 The pursuit of happiness is a trap that keeps us from being happy
• 8:18 What is the root cause of self-doubts?
• 13:49 Breaking the cycle of outsourcing your identity to the external world
• 19:10 What IS happiness?
• 23:39 What is self-leadership?
• 34:19 Parenting yourself as a form of self-leadership
• 45:27 Honoring our boundaries creates new standards among others too

Transcript

0:10

The way we've been doing work and leadership is deeply broken. Whether you're healing from burnout or just looking for a better way to run your company, you're in the right place. What is the future of work even look like? That is a question we get to answer together. After working with 1000s of executives and entrepreneurs around the world. I know that the deepest leadership issues are deeply human. We've got to heal ourselves if we want to heal the world. Welcome to the new self Podcast where each week, I'll help you explore topics that will level up your leadership and your life. I'm your host, Nicole Belisle. I'm a leadership expert and Reiki master, and I believe the secret to more conscious work and leadership is self healing, grab a seat and get cozy because we're about to go on a journey. I am joined today by a wonderful guest, Karen Seitz. She is known as the happiness mentor. And today we're going to look at the nuances of what happiness even is, how do we cultivate it within ourselves and stop looking for it externally? Karen is someone who has done a ton of spiritual seeking, and came to realize that the answer wasn't anywhere out there. Outside of herself, she came to a profound realization that she herself was the problem. She was the constant. And she took responsibility for that Karen believes that happiness is a choice that is accessible to all of us to make experts like Karen who have taken the time to get into the nitty gritty to understand the nuance can help us all fast track our insights, she will be sharing insights today that could take years if not a lifetime to understand. And we get to learn that from her. Now. Throughout the episode, I invite you to tune into your unique definition of these concepts. Because ultimately, you're in the driver's seat of your life of your success, and happiness. And Karen is going to help you stay in that driver's seat. Without further ado, let's dive into the episode. Karen, I'm so excited to share space with you and have this conversation today. Thank you so much for being on the new self podcast. Thank you for having me, Nicole, it's really nice to be here. And I look forward to the conversation we're gonna have. Likewise, I know that you have been on a really incredible journey of self seeking spiritual seeking. And you're you're known as a happiness mentor. So what what's your story? How did you go from kind of questioning the definition of success to being a happiness mentor, because that's a really interesting title that you're embodying here. Well, my journey really started very much like others, were in my adult life, I got trapped in the pursuit of happiness. And what happened is, I was looking to people in things to make me happy. And I was looking to spiritual journey to make me happy. And all the while I was chasing and checking the boxes of the things that I thought would make me happy. So getting a degree, starting a business, getting married, becoming a yoga teacher becoming a Reiki Master becoming a meditation teacher becoming a shamanic healer, and practitioner, starting a healing practice all these things. Under the guise of thinking, if I do this, if I do this next thing, then I'll finally feel complete, then I'll finally feel whole, then I'll finally be happy and my life. Yet what ended up happening was I just kept seeking, I just kept chasing, because those things never actually worked to make me happy. Because one thing that we all know whether we know how to apply it in our lives or not, but what we all know is that no one and no thing can make you happy that happiness is an inside job. But I had no path and no way to know how to actually cultivate that happiness within myself. And everything I was doing wasn't working. The books I was reading, weren't working, yoga wasn't working. Reiki wasn't working, meditation wasn't working. And I found myself in my early 30s Still feeling very insecure. Very much in a facade of making it look like I had it all. together, but feeling like a mess inside, and many areas of my life still looks like a mess. And I started to question like, is, is this it? Like, is this going to be my life? Is this what it's going to look like? And feeling very much like, what's the point. And then, very fortunately, I met my mentors, who really helped me to start to build a relationship with myself and to teach me what that actually looks like. And through that process, I was able to find a direct path to cultivating inner happiness, which is how I became the happiness mentor. Amazing. I love what you're illuminating here around happiness being an inside job, right? Because I think that there is such a trap in thinking that that comes from somewhere outside of us. And even if we present as being really successful, I know that myself as well, in times when I on the outside have looked like I had it together or looked like things were going really well. There still can be that that imposter syndrome. Within of Wait a minute, I'm supposed to be happy I should there's that word should be happy with all of these things. So were you experiencing this, this same version of of not being enough? Or what what did that look like? Inside as you were recognizing, wait a minute, I'm I'm here, with all of these external successes, and something is still off, drop drop us into what that really felt like? Well, it really dives into understanding the experience of being unhappy. And recognizing that our very human Pursuit of Happiness is a big, big red flag that we are actually unhappy. Because when we are happy, we stopped seeking. And the very fact that I was continuing to seek in almost a desperation of finding the next thing that I thought would make me feel okay in my life was the very trap that I was spinning in, that kept me feeling not enough. That kept me feeling empty on the inside, lost, confused about who I was, I often share that I felt like a little girl trapped inside a woman's body, and needing to pretend to be confident needing to wear this mask and facade to the outside world to make me feel that I was okay. I looked to people to tell me what to do in my life, whether that was therapists, books, healers, friends, family, I was looking for all my answers outside of me, which left me with the complete inability to trust myself, or believe in myself to make choices to think for myself, and to navigate my life as an adult woman. And really feel like I knew how to do life, and I didn't. And that was really the internal experience, which everything I just shared, Nicole is the internal experience of being unhappy. And it stems from this place of always wanting what we don't have thinking, once I get this, whether it's an achievement, or an accolade, or letters behind our name, or a degree or a marriage or kids, whatever it is, we think is going to give us that experience or status of success. That's in that trap of the pursuit of happiness and being unhappy, which I define being unhappy as always wanting what I don't have. And when we live in that experience. That's where we have that internal insight, insecurity and constant doubt in ourselves that I just described, which is what I was living in constantly on a path of seeking on a path of trying to find happiness on a path of trying to find myself and coming up short every single time. Thank you so much for illuminating that, that core or root cause of the self doubt in all of this because I think often when we're feeling that void within have to your definition of being unhappy, right, like always wanting what we can't have always in that Chase. That is such a it's almost celebrated in the entrepreneurial world right to keep chasing the thing, grow the business, make it bigger. or rise in the ranks, like be be the best version of yourself all these ideals that we that we get sold or conditioned into. And then when we don't achieve it, there's yeah, there's just that, that unhappiness that that can really settle in. So, so how, how did you? How did you pull yourself out of this? What what ultimately, were some of the practices or the mindset shifts that that led you to start to rewire a bit and find happiness? Well, really, I had to have an awakening, I really first had to, and with the help of my mentors, because I was so stuck in my own stories that I, like, I would have told you while I was in my path, and doing all the things I was doing, in my own doom version of myself, and trying to protect myself from being exposed from what was really going on, I really believed that I was happy, I really believed I had it together, I really believed I was on this great path for myself. But my external world reflected something very different to me. And fortunately, meeting my mentors is where I had the opportunity to really have an inner awakening, that shifted my perspective, in a way that was transformational and life changing. And they really taught me how to be honest with myself. Because as I was stuck in my stories, of what I thought my life was of who I thought I was, I couldn't see clearly where I was really at and what was going on with me and my life. So the moment of, of having this internal awakening, the big aha, was really seeing that I was the problem in my life, that everything else I had been doing to try to figure myself out, not to mention our culture, or, you know, family, friends, all unknowingly reinforced and enabled me to put the power and control outside of me. And to believe that it was my past that it was my upbringing, that it was my failed relationships, that it was my husband, that it was all these things outside of me that I have no control over to change, which kept me going around in circles. So to have a moment of awakening to recognize and see that I was the problem in my life was a turning point for me to actually start to connect with myself. And, and what I had to see in hindsight, was that everything else I had been doing, thinking I was connecting with myself, actually kept me disconnected. Because in my spiritual path, I was always trying to become some supreme version of myself some higher version of me, or some enlightened version of me, I didn't want to be carrot. I want it to be something much grander and much more than Karen. And myself, so there was no connection to me. It wasn't until I could see myself as as the problem in my life, that I could actually begin to move forward and see the choices and decisions I was making. That kept me feeling really bad about myself that kept me always chasing and seeking and wanting what I didn't have being unhappy. And that was a pivotal moment that really allowed me to discover there is a me in here. And then that path began to lead to really building a relationship with myself into a path of self actualizing, which is a journey in itself, that we can continue to grow and learn on for our entire lives. And in order to be on a path of self actualizing becoming the best version of myself and using life to grow and learn about who I am and to develop internal self value. I had to realize how I was constantly looking to my external world, to define me, to give me a sense of value and who I am to define who I am, and recognizing that's what cuts me in that pursuit of happiness and therefore unhappy He is always looking to my external world to define who I was to define success for me. And to be on a path of becoming the best version of myself not for how it looks to anybody else, or for the The next award or accomplishment or achievement. But just for me, because of who I want to be, and the character and integrity of the kind of person, I want to know myself as that that's a true path of self actualizing, where it's just for me, and through that path, I began to build internal self value and to actually feel good about who I am, which then allowed me to develop internal happiness, which I know we'll get into and okay, what is happiness? Wow, what I'm what's really standing out to me in what you're sharing is partly that you broke the cycle of outsourcing your identity, your worth your value by by going inward and letting that relationship to yourself to that North Star and what integrity really looks like for you. Like letting that be the thing that is enough and learning to love that self. I just think that that is it's so and we're not taught that at all. So we're, we're not taught that. And if I can add, Nicole, that we don't want that it's much more alluring, to have the achievements in our life to go after the external things that we think will make us happy because we're we're getting something that gives us this temporary fulfillment or feeling accomplished or feeling successful. And that's whether that's more money, whether that's a house, whether that's having children, whether that's getting married, whether that's climbing, the corporate ladder, whether that's having a successful business, those things are all much more alluring to us, then the true journey of happiness, and success is all you get is yourself, these things are there too. But they're not what you're striving for, you're really just striving for that experience of yourself to feel good about who you are. And when we're unhappy. And we don't feel good about ourselves, and we feel insecure and we feel not enough. It's kind of like, like get his knee. We don't actually want ourselves we want anything but ourselves. So it's, it's a That in itself is a challenge for us to actually want to pursue integrity, pursue character, pursue being the best version of ourselves, when all we get in the end is us. Exactly. Yeah. Somehow it doesn't seem as glitzy or as glamorous in a way. And so I can understand why you say that, that happiness, or at least our conventional way of defining it is a bit of a trap. And so So now that you've you've realized that you've had that awakening, what, what is that internalized happiness that you're experiencing? And walk us through what that what that feels like and what the inner landscape now is for you? Oh, good. Yeah, that's a really great place to go next, so that we're laying a foundation of really understanding what happiness is. Because, quite frankly, we, we really have it all wrong. In our society, in our culture, just even aside from that, just in our humaneness and how we are wired. So what we want to believe happiness is, is all of the external achievement, it is the success, it's having the money, it's having the lifestyle, it's having the freedom. It's feeling happy. That's where I got really trapped in the pursuit of happiness and especially on my spiritual journey, is I was chasing a feeling I was chasing like, that blissed out feeling you might have after a really great yoga class or that blissed out feeling you might have aftermath meditating, which I never really achieved. I was horrible at meditating and really didn't enjoy it. And it was always a fight and a struggle. But I know some people have that kind of blissed out, zen experience after meditating and that's what we want to believe happiness is that it's this feeling. It's this kind of elated state, and experience of ourselves. It's not that Not at all. So how I define happiness is that it's really a state of being. And it's an experience of yourself. Where it's the opposite of unhappy if unhappy, as I always want, what I don't have, have happiness is, I only want to be me. And I only want the life I have, not because of what I have in my life, not because of what I get to do, or what I don't have in my life. But it really is this internal experience of no lack, and no want in one's life, where you have a deep acceptance of who you are, and a deep acceptance of the life that you have, even with the challenges, even with the shortcomings, even with the flaws. Because you're in life for the sole purpose of growing and learning about yourself, to understand who you are. And in that experience, you create a feeling of, of actually feeling really good about who you are. And having that internal self value, where you know, you're going to be okay, no matter what. And in the experience of being happy, you cease to look and seek for your meaning and purpose outside of you. And you become your own meaning and purpose, that it's not about finding value in the people and things in your life. In order to be happy, you must value yourself. And so it's it's shifting from this constant seek of external value in our lives, to really developing internal value. What the natural argument that can come up, Nicole, is, well, that sounds really selfish and really self centered, because that's all gosh, she said, It's all about you. It's all about me. But that's not actually what happens when we live in a place of wanting our meaning and purpose and our value to come from the people and things in our lives. What actually happens in our relationships is that we need the people in our lives to be something for us to feel okay, and to give us that sense of meaning and purpose. And that actually unknowingly leads to an experience of being manipulative, and controlling. And then being very upset, and hurt, when somebody is not fulfilling that role that you've secretly assigned to them to be something for you. It's when we're complete and whole within ourselves, and we don't need something or somebody to fill that hole in us, that we can actually experience life for the reality of what it is, and accept the people in our lives for who they are, and not need them to be anything for us. So when I'm striving to be the best version of me, by seeking my value, and seeking my meaning and purpose in me, then that benefits everybody. Because if I'm being the best version of me, I'm not being manipulative and controlling, I'm actually being accepting, empathetic, compassionate, and wanting people to just be who they are, and using those relationships to grow and learn about myself and be the best that I can be in those relationships. And that benefits everybody. So it's actually the most, or the least selfish path that one could take is is developing the internal meaning and purpose within oneself, and valuing oneself. It almost sounds like a bit of a fast track in a way to that that ripple effect that we can have of of leaders in our own lives because I think a lot of the a lot of the behaviors or the patterns that can be more traumatic that you're describing, right of being highly reactive, manipulating, needing someone to be something for us. This this is so normalized. And in our community here we talk a lot about things like work trauma, and breaking the pattern of some of these more negative behavioral or relational habits by breaking the pattern within first so talk to us a bit about self leadership and because it because I'm really getting in what you're saying that that it is a bit of a fast track to go inward to to rewrite to choose yourself and to have enough reps Have your own integrity and have your own self love to be able to trust yourself again, right? Because one of my favorite definitions of, of trust it or self trust, rather, is that that's actually what confidence is. And and we all I think want to, on some level, feel confident in the lives that we're building for ourselves and the companies that we're leading. So, so help us understand a bit more about what is self leadership and why why start there? Like what, what are some of the other benefits we can expect from starting there? Yeah, well, I think, if I can speak a little bit to I love what you're saying, like this sounds a bit like fast track. And it absolutely is. Because what we don't realize that we are actually seeking when we chase external success, and we chase the things outside of us to give us a good life or to make us feel whole and complete, is we get so far away from ourselves. And what we don't realize we're seeking in those things. Is ourselves, what we've been searching for our whole lives that we had no idea we were searching for, is actually experiencing herself. So it is a fast track to everything that you've ever wanted. Because everything you've ever wanted is you. And it's not outside of you. You live within yourself. And that's where I think in, in going in the direction of really talking about self leadership, this is also a really good time to define what success is. And then that's going to set us up to really talk about self leadership. So if success isn't the awards, it's not the accomplishments, it's not the checking the boxes of what we believe will be a good life. We have to totally redefined success. So it's not the traditional definition of what our culture and society unknowingly and I don't believe, from an ill intended place, reinforces and enables, it's just our humaneness and it's just the structure of the reality that we live in our lives. But how I define success, which is, is going to happen in and develop through self leadership. Success is knowing I have done my best. And I feel good about who I am. Success is knowing I've done my best. And I feel good about who I am. Not because anybody else is telling me I've done my best, or that I should feel good, or I should be proud of myself is a deep knowing and experience than myself, that I know, I have done my best. And I feel good about myself for having done my best. That's what successes, and it happens through this concept of self leadership on the journey of self actualizing. And the beauty of using self actualization. And the process of self leadership, to cultivate this kind of success is that it doesn't require a certain amount of money. It doesn't require a degree. It doesn't require letters behind your name. It doesn't require a marriage or kids or a house. Every single human has the ability to self actualize. It's why Maslow and Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the very pinnacle of Maslow's hierarchy is self actualization. And what might be one person's best and best version of themselves can look very different from another person's best version of themselves. And it's not a hierarchy. It's not a better than or a more established path or not. I know for me, that my purpose in my life, what's going to allow me to express myself and my fullest potential is being a thought leader. And that's the path and the journey that I am on, not for the end result of being a thought leader being well known. But to really express and push myself in a way that allows me to be the best that I can be and express myself fully in life. And so it doesn't matter what our path is and what that looks like to be our best version of ourselves. Anyone can do it It doesn't require any of the traditional definitions or ideals that we have as a culture or society, of what's going to be successful. And the path of self actualizing, of pushing ourselves to our potential and being the best version of ourselves solely for the experience of knowing who we are and feeling good about ourselves, is what you have asked about, which is self leadership. And how I talk about and how I define self leadership is actually a term called parenting oneself. Actually, being able to get off of a track of doing what we want, when we want. And having clear structure in our lives, that pushes us to making choices and decisions that are best for us and doing what we know we need to do, even when we don't want to do it. And not from a place of powering through, and making ourselves do the things we know we need to do. But actually, from a very conscious, self aware place, of parenting ourselves to do the things we need to do for the purpose of developing internal self value. So an example being so I love food. And one of my challenges in life has been being an emotional eater, and stuffing my feelings and stuffing my emotions with food. And when I do that, not only is that not good for my physical health, more importantly, which I think my physical health is a reflection of, it's not good for my emotional health. Because when I stuff and I push down and I suppress with food, I don't feel good about who I am not because of what I'm eating, but because I'm avoiding myself, and I'm avoiding dealing with what's being shaken up in me. So I pair myself around food not for weight, not for physical reasons, but actually is a path of showing myself I'm worth it. I'm worth it on a Tuesday night to say no to the Ben and Jerry's in the freezer that I like to enjoy on a Friday or Saturday night, right. And I do that not from a place of powering through but actually catching myself. And and we all know this. So for being honest, actually catching myself and my adult temper tantrum of stomping my not literally but internally, stomping my feet right and laying on the floor kicking and screaming, I'm like, No, but I was the Ben and Jerry's did I want to now and catching myself in that temper tantrum, just to actually have a conversation with myself almost like you would with a child of No, Karen. We're not going to do that tonight. Because you know, if you do that, you're not gonna feel good about yourself, you're gonna set yourself on a path of then making other choices tonight, that aren't going to make you feel good about yourself. And then you're setting yourself up for not a great date tomorrow. So know that Ben and Jerry's has for Friday, and we're leaving it in. We're not, we're not doing that. And when I do that, at from a place of self leadership and parenting myself, it starts with the small things like that, which is why I'm using this example. We feel really good about who we are. Because we've shown ourselves I care about me, I'm worth it enough to tell myself No. And to do the thing I need to do for me, the focus isn't on doing what you know you should do and just powering yourself through it is a very conscious intent to know why you're doing it in this path of what we're talking about to self actualize. And be happy to feel good about who you are. The that's why you beat yourself. And it's not for the external rewards is not for what you're gonna get at the end of it. When you practice self leadership through parenting yourself. Again, the only thing you get is you, which is the very thing that fills you and makes you feel complete and whole in your life so that you can have that success in terms of the definition that I outlined in the beginning. There's so much wisdom in in what you're sharing and with the with the parenting. I find this so interesting because similar to how you said these practices, this taking on of self leadership, anyone can do it, it doesn't cost any money. So therefore it's accessible to any human being It feels like with the parenting, no matter where we came from, or what our upbringing was, what the dynamics were with our parental figures, we get to cultivate that, that inner family structure or that inner culture of self love honoring our own boundaries, right? Because I think, I think at least at least for me, when it comes to burnout, a huge part of where burnout is coming from, is me actually steamrolling my own boundaries, over and over to push myself beyond the threshold to, to skip those inner conversations that you're describing, where you get to slow down, take the sacred pause and say, Wait a minute, you know, Karen, we're gonna have this boundary, we're gonna wait till Friday. And so I'm hearing how, how loving our self talk can actually be, especially when we look at it through this lens of, of being our own parent to uphold those boundaries with ourselves and to, to love ourselves into a sense of deep security. There's so much inner security that that I'm feeling in what in what you're saying. And I think that gets to be the bedrock and the soil from which this confidence then grows. So am I getting that right? Is that your experience of this parenting practice? Yeah, well, I'm glad you tied it in, in with burnout and, and what we typically do and what leads to burnout is this. powering through being sped up, racing through life, I would say I primarily work with women. And I know you shared your audience is primarily women, we, we really struggle. And in my own experience, as a woman working with many women, and just understanding that we have different issues and hang ups, as, as women than men, we really struggled to be very sped up internally, and racing through life, and powering through life and just getting it done in, in, in. There's a term one of my clients uses that I like like grinding it out, which is the very opposite of self leadership and the very opposite of parenting oneself. And it's in that experience, what we're really doing and that racing through life and being sped up, which is what leads to burnout is we're racing through seeking that external reward, whatever it is that we're chasing, whether it's more money, whether it's the successful business, whether it's getting the promotion, whatever it is in life, that's what we're chasing, and that that seeking that external value, is then what leads to burnout. Because even if we get that external value, it maybe makes us feel good and accomplished for a little bit. But then it's like we're a bucket with holes in it. And it just leaks right out. And then we're chasing and running right after the next thing. And there's no me in that experience, and I just get emptier and emptier and emptier and emptier, which then is what leads to burnout. So the experience of filling yourself back up to where there is a You and you, you do feel full within yourself, is what we're talking about and parenting yourself. And self leadership, it's actually the very thing that then connects you to yourself, and allows you to begin to develop self awareness, and actually then be able to be in control of your emotional state. And that is, is really the experience and the journey of being happy is having that control within yourself. And getting out of this chaos and drama that we live in when we're racing and running and powering through our life. And choosing to slow down and actually becoming in control of our emotional state, which is what makes happiness choice. I love that I love thinking of happiness as a choice and the reframe that you're helping us with here around responsibility and discipline, being a really healthy and positive and even loving thing, right like this gets to be an act of self love is with ourselves. It is well you know, we can think about Nicole, I have a short, really short little story from a client that really helps paint this picture. When we think about how kids feel cared for in loved kids feel cared for and loved when parents hold boundaries, and they hold their kids accountable and will actually say no and stick To the consequences when it when a child acts out or does something they're not supposed to. And a parent actually follows through and sticks with the known consequence for that behavior. Even when a child throws a temper tantrum and rebels like I did, you actually feel loved. And you actually feel supported. So it's the very, very same thing with us as adults, when we parent ourselves. And we hold those boundaries for ourselves. That's where we feel cared for and loved. And I had a client who shared with me as I was teaching her this very concept. She was a woman in corporate America completely burnt out when she came to me. And I taught her parenting herself and everything we're talking about today. And she shared when we were on this section, in my, my program, she shared Yeah, I had a friend when I was a teenager. And I grew up in a household where my parents told me, No, they stuck to the boundaries, they stuck to the consequences. But I had a friend whose mom let her do whatever she wanted. And her mom was like her best friend, and she never got in trouble. And I thought like, that would be the best. Like if I just had parents let me do whatever I wanted. And she said, she remembered her friend actually telling her when they were growing up, she remembered her saying to her, I wish my parents loved me enough to tell me no. Wow. That is that's profound that is absolutely profound. And connecting this, this sacred No, our ability to tell ourselves No, or even to set boundaries externally as that it almost sounds like that's yet another fast track to happiness and holding a really safe, secure container for ourselves. And yet, I think especially for female entrepreneurs and business owners, that boundary setting piece can be so difficult, we feel bad about it, we, we say no, and then second guess it and want to, you know, overpower our own our own boundaries to people, please, and get that external validation. So it's, it's such a vicious cycle. But I think, I think the power of what you're sharing here is the power of what's possible, on the other side of learning to say, No, doing the parenting that you've highlighted, a different experience that that's possible. And I think that in and of itself, is is so motivating for us to, to take the risk to saying no, and then learning to pick ourselves up. Yeah, in whatever comes right. You mentioned that earlier of, I get to be here for myself, no matter what I get to be the stable parental figures essentially. So it's Yeah, so much wisdom, in that you really get to grow and learn about yourself, you are able to see the part of you that's really scared to say no, or see the part of you that is for for me, and I know many people can relate to this, I don't enjoy group texts. And I don't enjoy group texting with family, I love my family very much. But like the group texts can get out of control. And is not how I prefer to have a relationship with the people that I love in that I care about. It seems very impersonal. And it's just, it feels very obligate story. And I'm supposed to and so I've learned to not respond in group texts, not from a place of this is who I am. And I don't like group texts and being a brat about it. But actually from a place of caring about myself enough to be true to who I am. And when I set the boundaries for me, I can't tell my family, hey, don't send me group texts that's putting the power and control outside of myself and I can't change them. But when I set that boundary by not responding to group texts are very seldom responding to them. And maybe directly texting the person that started it, if it's something I want to respond to and acknowledge. That's me being true to myself. And what happens when, when I set that boundary of who I am and this is how I communicate and how I best interact. Then those people in my life actually feel cared for. Because I'm not wishy washy, and all over the place or when I say hey, no, Friday night, I'd really just like to unwind I'm not going to come out for drinks, you know, if it's a friend or whatever, and they, they they begin to know Oh, yeah, Karen. Karen doesn't really like to come out on a Friday night. She likes to be at home and spend time with her husband and just chill. So I'm setting forth who I am and showing people who I am and and how to interact with me from a very loving place, not from a like I give no F's I use or I do what I want. And I don't care what people think. There's no self love in that. And there's no love and relationships from that place. It's very intentional. It comes from a kind place, and it feels vulnerable and uncomfortable. But that's where you grow and learn about yourself. And that's where the, the self actualizing and becoming the best version of yourself comes in. And then you actually create that trust and love in your relationships. It's very counterintuitive to us very counterintuitive. It is it is, but the nuances that you're describing, it's, I think that even this example with the, with the group text is so relatable. Yeah, and I think sometimes when we, when we love ourselves enough to set the boundary and create a new standard for ourselves, whatever that version is, for us, those around us get to see, oh, wait a minute, I can do that, too. I don't really like group texts either. Like, I can do that. So I think sometimes one of the most, the best or healthiest impacts that we can have on other people is simply by living in our own truth and integrity. And living as a model for that in our own way. And being an embodied invitation to help remind people that you get to do this too, we're not stepping on the toes of of others by by loving ourselves, really, because that's, that's what this is, is leading ourselves to love. And when we don't set those appropriate boundaries. And be true to ourselves. So using the group texting again, as a, an example, when I go against what, what's true to me, and like, this doesn't feel like how I want to communicate with people every once in a while is fine, like, but I don't want to have this back and forth conversation on group text, nothing personal. It's just not who I am. It's not comfortable to me. When I go against myself in that, to please my family or whoever or friends or whoever it is, then I'm being fake, and manipulative. And I'm not being myself. And that's where it becomes a mess later on. And people get hurt later on. And it's counterintuitive to us. But when I'm not myself, then I'm not being loving. And I'm not really genuinely showing up in my relationships, I'm being a fake version of myself to get back and return. That approval, acceptance, validation, belonging, whatever it is. And that's where we just we spend and we get caught in drama and chaos in our lives, and we can't figure ourselves out. And we wonder why we're so stuck, or why we're so burnt out. It's like going against ourselves and not being true to who we are. Definitely. And I imagine we're not finding much happiness in in that inner misalignment. There's either, yeah, so this, this whole definition right of, of happiness being us being the thing that we're chasing, I think is such a beautiful place to perhaps end and I'm curious, tell us a little bit about how you how you work with people, and where people can can find you, of course, so how I work with people is, is very different than traditional therapy or even coaching. So how I work with clients is very much as a teacher. So I have a 10 week happiness course, which is an educational program, to really teach my clients the foundation of a lot of what we've been talking about today, and a very simple roadmap to happiness. And it's an experiential program. So as opposed to being more information, and intellectual, I teach in a way that allows people to take these concepts and really apply them in their lives so that they're experiencing it and recognize, you know, oh my gosh, this, this is work and there are this is this does work and I there is a me, and they're having through the program, internal awakening, like I did, to have that shift from being externally focused to connecting with oneself and really learning how to build internal self value, which is that foundation of happiness. So it's a 10 week program. It's very much rooted and being committed to oneself and learning to be accountable to oneself. So I, I really set that as the foundation there's very little one on one time with We're getting into the stories in the past in the upbringing because none of that's necessary. It's really us meeting for me to make sure that you're holding yourself accountable and what you're learning, doing the homework for yourself, and you're connecting the dots with what you're learning, so that my clients are empowered to realize you have everything you already need. You just needed somebody with the key to unlock it in you. And now take it and run with it. So if that speaks to anyone listening, you can find me at my website, a happiness course.com Learn more about me there and be able to contact me there, to learn more and potentially be on a path that feels right to you to building inner happiness. Beautiful, Karen, thank you so much for the work that you're that you're doing in the world and the message that you're bringing, I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to be in your presence and witness all the wisdom that you're sharing. So thank you so much for being on the podcast. You're welcome. Thank you very much for having me. The inner work is often the hardest work, but it is the work required for lasting change and a healthier future for us all. If you found the show valuable please leave a review and subscribe. You can also take a deeper dive with me at Nicole belisle.com Thanks again for being here and showing up for your new self. Your future self was certainly thank you